Dana Fry: The Golftime Interview

Below are excerpts from an article that originally appeared in Golftime.

Golftime Magazine: Can we start with the U.S. Open? Now that you’ve had some time for it in your rear-view mirror, what’s your take on it?

Dana Fry: Well, obviously never in my wildest dreams did I think I’d ever have my name associated with a golf course that has a U.S. Open — it just doesn’t happen. Now, obviously it did for Mr. Robert Trent Jones (II) a couple years before us (at Chambers Bay) — and a lot of people don’t know, we were in the final four for that job, came close to getting them both — but regardless, we had a U.S. Open and it went well and I know from talks that there’ll be future events there.

GM: But not too many living architects can say they’ve had a U.S. Open course.

DF: Well, basically just Robert Trent Jones, Mike Hurdzan and I, and Ron Whitten, because he was involved at Erin Hills. It’s a very small club, and you can see from the courses they’re picking now, probably not going to be any different (living architects) coming on board anytime soon.

GM: Obviously you’ve had a great career before Erin Hills, but what did the Open do for you personally, as well as professionally?

DF: Well, your name gets spread around the world, so that was a major, major change. I’ve struggled — I worked with Tom Fazio for five years, from ’83 to ’88, and then from ’88 to 2012 I was with Mike Hurdzan and was his partner. But we’d still struggled when we’d go outside the U.S., in particular. Nobody would know who we were. In Asia or the Middle East and these other places I’d go, you’ve got to be almost celebrity status or you’re not good. It’s not right, but it’s reality, and you can’t get the jobs because of that. This obviously has helped change that.

I met a player who I’ve become very close to (editor’s note: the player’s name is still undisclosed as of press time), and we’ll be doing design work on select courses in the future. And that came about because of the U.S. Open. He’s seen the golf course and a few others and he liked the golf course, and he’s seen the quality of the work. So that wouldn’t have come about without a U.S. Open.

I hope to be doing this at least another 20 years, maybe 25, God willing. I exercise, I work out. I’m like the Gary Player of golf architects. I take my health unbelievably serious. I exercise and lift weights and do interval cardio almost every day of my life. I’m convinced I (wouldn’t get as much work) if I was out of shape guy that didn’t have a lot of energy and a zest for life. I mean, that’s part of the deal. And I live to travel. And I want to do new courses, too. The vast majority of new golf courses is going to be spread all over the world. I don’t want to do a lot of work, frankly, but I want to spend a maximum amount of time on very select projects.

I honestly believe the best of work of my career is ahead of me now, because I know what’s coming down the road.

GM: And now you have more of a choice in your projects, right?

DF: Well, now instead of losing jobs to — you pick the name, Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Greg Norman, you know, Colin Montgomerie, Nick Faldo — I’ve lost jobs to those guys a bunch of times. Now it’s different because you’re on that side of the fence. And it is different. The deals are different, the clientele is different, and you’re going to be working on some incredible sites and places that I would never have a chance. And again, that all came about because of the U.S. Open.

GM: Now, you’ve already been overseas, though, right? You were in China, correct?

DF: That’s right, I lived in Hong Kong for five years, from 2008 to 2013, before moving back to Boca Raton (Florida) and then Naples. Mike Hurdzan and I did a lot of golf courses in mainland China, we had six open.

GM: You got your start working for Tom Fazio, a pretty good gig right out of the gate in college. What’d you learn from him?

DF: Well, the guy I met was a guy named Andy Banfield. Andy was then and still is today, Tom’s right-hand man, and all the people in our industry that are unheralded? He is at the top of that mountain. Because most people have never heard his name, and he’s a very unassuming guy, and — not saying this as a knock to Tom Fazio — but Tom Fazio would not be who he is today without that guy. Andy’s the guy that did Shadow Creek (in Las Vegas). And Andy’s the guy that made Tom Fazio say, “I learned that there’s no such thing as a bad site, when you have the money. With an unlimited budget, you can do anything.” Andy’s the best earth-moving guy that ever lived, because when he was done he could make it look like it was natural. You drive in to Shadow Creek, and it used to be nothing — just sand! But now you drive in and you can’t believe it, it’s a true Garden of Eden. But it looks believable. And Andy helped train a lot of the guys that worked for Fazio.

But I can’t say enough about Tom and Andy Banfield. I would not be here today without those two guys, no question.

GM: And then you went to work for Dr. Mike.

DF: I met Mike — Pete and Alice Dye, Alice Dye actually did the introduction to Mike Hurdzan, at the National Superintendents Show in Houston, Texas. And I was talking to Pete and Alice about possibly going to work for them — this was in February of ’88. And Mike Hurdzan came up the escalator and started talking to Pete and Alice, and they introduced me, and I’d never heard of him, I didn’t know who Mike was. I told him (after they’d left) I was thinking of going to work for them, and he said ‘Before you do that, I’m doing a course up in Canada called the Devil’s Pulpit’ — which was his first big job, ever. So he paid my way up there and I met the client, who said he ‘didn’t care what it cost, he wanted to build the greatest course in Canada’ — one of those type of guys. Mike said if I would move there and live on that job, oversee the construction and get it built, then I could move to Columbus (Ohio) and oversee all his jobs from his office. So up to that point I’d been traveling, and I had one child and one on the way. So creating a home base was appealing.

So I went to work for Mike, not knowing what the outcome would be. We formed quite the odd couple, and I say that endearingly. Mike is a brilliant guy, technically, maybe the best that’s ever been in our profession, from agronomics, soil sciences, environmental issues, helping jobs get permitted … he absolutely was The Kingpin, I mean, he was the guy. And saying that’s not my background would be the understatement of all time! (Laughs.) My background was runnin’ bulldozers and creating shapes at that time. And I never got on a bulldozer again (after going to work for Mike). The last thing I ever shaped — here’s some trivia for the real golf nerds — the last thing I personally ever shaped, was the seventh hole at the Devil’s Pulpit, which was a par 3.

It just went from there. He became the technical guy, and I was more the artistic guy, and I spent a tremendous amount — when you start talking about our biggest jobs, Calusa Pines, and Naples National, and Devil’s Pulpit, and Devil’s Paintbrush, those great, big jobs — I was there every week with those guys. I was at Arcadia Bluffs, literally every week — think I missed the week of the U.S. Open — from April through October, because I wanted to be there. And that’s how I want to do it going forward, and I’m really motivated to do it.

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